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Books by
Larry Ukali Johnson-Redd
My Deepest Affections Are Yours /
Journey to the Motherland
/
History
To Destiny Through Afrocentric Poetry /
Loving
Black Women
History
to Destiny Through Afrocentric Poetry
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Interview
with Larry Ukali Johnson-Redd
Author of Loving Black Women
By
Rudolph Lewis
Rudy:
I’ve just completed your new book
Loving Black Women (2006). It’s packed full with
a lot of heavy ideas and beautiful women. You have
numerous photos of beautiful sisters, old and young
ones, some big-legged gorgeous sisters. I wish you had
put their names in captions. I get the feeling from the
content of this book; you don’t know any ugly sisters.
Or you just don’t care to consider them. Is that right?
Ukali:
Hello Rudy. To answer your question I have about 200
female cousins in the San Francisco Bay Area, L.A., and
Little Rock as well as across the country in my
estimate. I contacted about 40 female relatives and
those in the book are the responders. Thank you for the
compliments for my mom, aunts, sisters, cousins, and
nieces. Their names or relationship appear on the
acknowledgment page in the front of the book. I truly
believe every sister is beautiful from the beginning;
however, some display ugly manners and that is the only
thing that can make a sister ugly. Thank you for the
compliments of the Black Women I loved all my life.
Rudy:
You lost your beautiful wife some years ago. Have you
remarried or you just wandering in the garden, playing
the field, so to speak?
Ukali:
Chinwe was truly beautiful and passed on when we were 33
years old. Much as I loved Chinwe I had to moved on to
stay among the living. I got married to a sister from
Pittsburg, Calif. Named Sharon C. in 1990. We married
and divorced in 1990. Since that time I have been
involved with several different relationships with
sisters from the US and Africa. As always I look for the
for-real love! However I am now ready to settle down
with the sister I am engaged to hopefully within a month
or two.
Rudy:
Have you noted, or is it just my imagination, that more
men and women are living alone and in separate
households than at any time in the history of Black
America? You sing about loving black women—but are black
women really loving black men? Or are they sort of hung
up on themselves and their Oprah problems?
Ukali:
You have observed the same issue I have observed from
the other coast. Many relationships between our sisters
and brothers face challenges some because we are in a
country where we are still treated like second-class
citizens. Some sisters use the laws against brothers
because they can. And sometimes brothers abandon their
responsibilities because their money is not enough or
shaky economics from the white supremacy state.
However,
despite our situation as a people we have not had as
much trouble staying together at any time as we are
having now. Yet most of our sisters are and continue to
love Black Men. And if brothers and sisters continue to
nurture positive relationships we help make sure we
continue to exist as a people in the USA and the world.
So Black
Women love Black men in general. However, there are
sisters and brothers who have issues. And we as a people
and as individuals need to sort out our relationships
and do our best to be great lovers to each other. As
long as that happens we can face the challenges posed by
white supremacy or the modern era with strong
relationships.
I have
written poems like “Love Your Smile” and “The Beauty of
a Sister” to celebrate the love we Brothers have for our
great Sisters! All of the poems in
Loving Black Women are written to
encourage love among us as a people so we can work
together better for our progress in our relationships
and as a people.
Rudy:
We hear women using such language as “booty call” and
“being serviced.” Where’s the love in such language? It
seems for many black women the black man has been
reduced to his penis or in these more liberated times,
his tongue. So when you speak of “love”—are you speaking
of “erotic” love? Or of some kind of fantasized
revolutionary love? Can you speak to these troubling
issues?
Ukali:
This is a deep question that goes to the heart where we
store our love. The language of “booty calls” and
“servicing” speaks to the different types of
relationships we are involved including single’s issues.
Some ladies have decided to stay single! I know sisters
would prefer the whole relationship including marriage
when they are with the man they love. However, that is
not always possible.
So when
I speak of the love of a people the ethnic glue that
holds a people together, we are losing it and in the
cases where we kill each other in the street we have
totally lost it.
So we
need to restore the people’s love that Bob Marley called
“ONE LOVE” so we can work together to survive in the
current world we live in. One love that we need is not
fantasized revolutionary love, but the love we need to
see that will bring down the brother to brother killing
we see in dramatic numbers in the San Francisco Bay
Area, LA area and in the streets of the USA, the
Caribbean, and Africa.
The
other love you spoke of an erotic love must be nurtured
as a part of a loving relationship to really be
meaningful. I might have thought a little a few years
ago. I have written “Black Women Dear” and “My Dream,”
“Dialog with a Black Woman,” “Pay Attention” and more to
provide readers with a chance to reevaluate and improve
relationships.
Rudy:
My impression is that the love you speak of is infused
with a kind of Black Nationalism that excludes other
races. There are black women with white male lovers and
white husbands and half white children. Does that
disturb you? And there are black men with white female
lovers and white wives and half-white children. Do you
think that those kinds of relationships work counter to
the “liberation struggle”?
Ukali:
Clearly, at least to me, we as African people in America
must reevaluate the love we are showing each other all
over the world and all over this country we live in as a
conscious priority, any people put in the vice grip of
white supremacy like us in America will have strained
relationships.
Police
and prison guards who place Black Men and Women in
prison cells help stir up tensions among us resulting in
fights that go back out to our communities. If we had
the strongest love we could have as a people, we could
not be so easily manipulated against each other without
the deadly results on the streets of our communities.
We see
too much of and attend too many funerals of young
brothers particularly. My approach is we as a people
need to look inward first to seek solutions to brother -
to -brother killings in the rural and urban areas of the
USA and throughout the African World.
I am
getting married shortly and resent anyone telling me
whom to marry. I am not personally telling anyone
personally who to marry. I, like many African Americans,
have someone in the family in an inter-racial
relationship or marriage.
The
relationships that should be of primary importance to us
as a people are our internal relationships with each
other as a people. A person that is so deeply involved
in self- hate and political oppression needs to show
self love as a conscious priority. If we can get through
or to the establishment of ONE LOVE for ourselves we
might even find it easier to love others. However, love
like charity begins best at home!
Rudy:
There are more Hispanic and Asian men and women who are
digging on black men and women. Should they/we be
ashamed of such liaisons? Is this too a betrayal of the
“black revolution” you envision?
Ukali:
Again the highest priority we as a people must be the
self love and generating more love among us as a people
serves our greater good and does not present a threat to
anyone. So whoever someone chooses to love is personal.
However, if we choose someone else because we hate
ourselves, we will not be a good mate to any one
including ourselves.
Rudy:
In
Loving Black Women (2006) you call for an
All African Peoples Conference. In your concept of
“African,” you include peoples from Australia
(Aborigines), Asia (Papua New Guinea), the Pacific
Islands, the Middle East, as well as the Americas and
Europe. Aren’t you stretching African identity beyond
what it can hold in practice and reality?
Ukali:
In the Middle East you have many Black-skinned people
who choose their religion or national state as the focus
of their identity. So an All African People’s Congress
may or may not appeal to that group. The other areas
mentioned have
African
People as residents who probably would want to
participate in an All African People’s Congress as it is
developed from an idea to a proposal.
I am
speaking of African residents in European countries. New
Guinea a country of Black-skinned people like the people
of Fuji and other Pacific Islands, probably descended
from Eastern Africa in some distant ancient time. It
would be their decision to participate in an All
People’s Congress or not.
But I
feet the Melanesians should be included along with
Africans and Afro Brazilians, African Americans as well
as other Black populations throughout the West. This is
a thought and a proposal. However, the African People
throughout the world must embrace the concepts of an All
African People’s Congress before it will ever become a
reality.
I hope
we will have an All African People’s Congress in 3 to 5
years or at some future point in time in Africa, like
Nigeria or Ghana, to assess what we can do as a people
to assist each other to improve ourselves, to trade with
each other, to develop people-to-people, political, and
cultural relationships.
Rudy:
You seem to think that solving the identity question
leads automatically to the resolution of larger problems
like neocolonialism, poverty, ignorance, and disease? Do
you think you are being rather fanciful? I mean isn’t
all this rather a fantasy?
Ukali:
When you travel to Africa as an African American you are
immediately impressed with the power African people
manage and exercise in Africa. I also feel that the
young brothers and sisters in the streets and schools
need to see how we can empower each other as well
through seeing our leaders coming together from around
the world as a realist empowerment model we can
implement in our communities around the world.
Sorting
out and establishing our identity is but the first step
and you have listed other issues we need to sort out and
solve.
I do not
think ideas like these are fantasy but Marcus Garvey and
Malcolm X expressed these types of ideas in their time.
However, we as a people have the power to make our plans
and dreams a reality if we want to.
Rudy:
You worked four years in Nigeria as a teacher in the
1970s. Your Nigerian wife then worked for the
government. It was your first time in a black country.
You felt at home? Except for some government
bureaucracy problems, you play down any other criticisms
of what was/is happening in Nigeria. There must be
something wrong there for we are finding more and more
Nigerians desperate to leave their country to come to
America or go to Europe. Can you give us now the real
deal?
Ukali:
Nigeria is currently at once an independent country and
a neocolonial state with progress and potential. The
Nigerians battle the IMF and Western multinationals who
try to take advantage of the high grade oil produced by
Nigeria’s land and costal waters. However, the Nigerians
are well educated and could be the first African country
to break out of the neocolonial status by developing to
their full potential their resources of oil and natural
gas as well as other natural resources, and Nigerian
people.
These
western companies are welcomed but do not act like good
corporate citizens because they are driven by profits.
So there are corporate challenges to Nigeria’s
independence. But the Nigerians are avid readers and
very knowledgeable about their challenges and continue
to make progress. Still there are many unemployed and
uneducated hardworking young men and women in the
country who want progress.
So
Nigeria is the most populous African republic in the
world. Nigeria is a third world country with first world
potential and a dynamic population, As African Americans
we will see hip hop and other types of African-American
influence in current-day Nigeria. For that reason I hope
as many African Americans as possible can experience the
good, bad and ugly that constitutes Nigeria so we can
observe their successes and learn from their failures
and see our people in Nigeria and look beyond western
stereotypes of our people living in trees. I want my
people to see the magnificent houses and regular houses
our people live in Nigeria.
There
are many young Nigerians who might like to come to the
USA to study and settle here or study and return to
their country to build up their country. Nigeria has a
range of school opportunities but not every Nigerian can
be in all of their schools at the same time
Rudy:
We know of three major tribal groups in Nigeria:
Yoruba, Hausa, and Igbo. How much did you learn about
these different peoples and the tensions that exist
among them? Did your wife belong to one of these groups?
Did you travel into all these regions? Make friends
there in those regions?
Ukali:
When I arrived in Nigeria in 1977 the first Nigerian
brother I made friends with in Lagos was named Abu—and
he was a Northerner living in Lagos—the southwestern
area of Nigeria and the commercial capital of Nigeria.
Chinwe, my late wife, was at home all over Nigeria but
is of the Ibo family of southeastern Nigeria.
I lived
in Kaduna in Northern Nigeria the first 9 or 10 weeks.
I traveled to the North, West as well as the South South
area of Nigeria. I made the most and deepest friendships
in the Benin City area. I traveled to Nigeria’s east and
completed the Native Law and Custom Marriage of my late
wife’s Ibo people.
I found
it very easy to make friends all over Nigeria. However,
there are internal issues that Nigerians must sort out
for themselves. There are religious differences and
tribal issues like there are problems all over the
world. I traveled to Warri and Sapele in the Nigerian
Delta like the American GULF where you find massive
poverty and multinational oil companies side by side.
Rudy:
You recently returned to Nigeria. You gave a half hour
interview on Nigerian TV, talking mostly about the
troubles blacks have in America. Was that the purpose of
your trip? How did you find things different in Nigeria?
Where did you go? Did you sell any books?
Ukali:
I recently returned to Nigeria 24 years after I let
Nigeria with my late wife Chinwe in 1981. I found
customs to be easier this time and the customs officer
increased my visa from 10 days to 2 to 3 weeks stating
how you can’t see Nigeria in only 10 days.
I was
through customs so quickly I missed one of my friends
who came to pick me up. There are many young Nigerians
who might like to come to the USA to study and settle
here or study and return to their country to build up
their country. Nigeria has a range of school
opportunities but not every Nigerian can be in all of
their schools at the same time.
Rudy, I
will always be grateful to you for publishing “Remembering
Chinwe” in 2004, a short memoir that spoke about the last trip my late
wife and I made to the North to spend with her family.
At the
end of that essay I began remembering my Nigerian
brother friends Ide Equator, Akhere and Magnus Ugbesia
whom I had not seen or corresponded with for what was 24
years at that time.
That
article was read in Nigeria and Britain by relatives of
my friends. I got in touch with Ide, about five months
before my trip. And when I traveled to Ubiaja the home
village of Akhere, Magnus and Ide, with Ide, we bumped
in on the twins Akhere and Magnus Ugbesia.
When
Akhere and I met he was totally shocked and happy. We
sat down and shared some beer and caught up on 24 years
that beautiful night in Ubiaja, a village about 100
kilometers from Benin City. However, the primary reason
I was in Nigeria in October of 2005 was to meet my
fiancé and her family. I also looked for a Nigerian
publisher. I am still looking for an Africa-based
publisher.
Rudy:
You seem to believe that black-on-black violence is
the major problem of black cities. Others seem to think
that the major problem is the capitulation of black
elites to white middle-class values and callousness with
regard to the concerns of the working poor. Why such a
divergence in emphasis?
Ukali:
I feel that both the brother-to-brother killing and the
capitulation of some middle class African Americans are
a part of the problem. The white supremacy status in
America is the 800-pound gorilla. So our issues are very
complex and yet there is more we can do to prepare to
rule our world to rule our communities and to rule our
destinies. May we all do more to reconcile ourselves,
unite ourselves and liberate ourselves from the 800
pound gorilla.—White Supremacy—by working together to
improve ourselves so we can develop ourselves until we
are no longer victims of white supremacy.
Rudy:
You seem to putting books out as fast as Marvin X. How
do you do it? Why do you do it? Doesn’t your job as a
professional educator keep you busy enough, already?
Ukali:
Please buy my books because writers like me who invest
our own funds to produce independent books free of
American corporate support deserve the support of
African People all over the world that informs us about
our issues and come from a sincere heart!
My books
and media are available at some bookstores and my
e-commerce equipped web sites accessible at
lovingblackwomen.com and or
journeytothemotherland.com . I have been busy
writing Black Love Spoken Word, and presenting my
Spoken word in the Bay Area, Sacramento. LA and any
other community I receive an invitation from.
Please
invite me and I will make a presentation in your venue.
Buy your copy of Loving Black Women and
Journey To The Motherland, From San Francisco To Benin
City at my websites and I will send you autographed
copies! I stay out of trouble by staying focused on
working as an educator and completing my books and other
media projects I have planned on for several years.
My books
and media are my legacy. I appreciate and respect the
work of our older brother Marvin X and appreciate being
mentioned in the same breath by some one I respect like
you Rudy! If you see Marvin X before I do please say
ENOUGH RESPECT to Marvin for me!
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Rudy:
You have been a long time supporter of
ChickenBones. Why? What influence is it having in
the Bay Area. Is there anything comparable to it,
anywhere?
Ukali:
I am sure ChickenBones draws hits from all over
the world including the Bay Area. I know that there are
many new online magazines but ChickenBones is the
most popular online magazine and many of our folks and
others from all over the world visit and cruise
ChickenBones and we are all better because
ChickenBones is available for us all! I keep in
touch with the Black Literary community by checking out
the ChickenBones website and online Magazine.
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Rudy:
Thanks ever so much for your time and your support. We
wish you the best as educator, author, and performer.
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Larry
Ukali Johnson-Redd—Report
on Third Annual
African-American Spoken Word
Festival--
Listen
to Conversations of Africa
by
following this link:
http://www.conversationsofafrica.asmnetwork.net/
You are invited to
listen to this and join in
the conversation and make it
a discussion by calling in
and participating at
347-215-7831! Remember
this segment will begin at 8
PM Pacific Standard Time! Conversations
of Africa
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posted 24 June 2006 /
updated 22 February 2008 |
